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coragyps And man do I have some thoughts. Obviously spoilers ahead. In general I didn't exactly hate TROS but... I didn't love it either. And that makes me sad. I've been a Star Wars fan my entire life and to not love a Star Wars movie is a lot from me. I loved the prequels when they came out. I loved TFA. Initially, I even liked TLJ a bit more than this.
There's gonna be a lot here so be prepared.
There's gonna be a lot here so be prepared.
The one thing that I went in knowing I absolutely did not want to happen was reylo. I thought anything else, I can handle. I was prepared for Kylo and Hux to die, which were the other things I was dreading. Other than that, I just wanted a good movie. I obviously hated the kiss, but it’s so easy to say it was a heat of the moment thing like Finn and Rose. I mean, Rey did just get revived from the dead. Sometimes you do crazy ass shit when that happens. And it is pretty clear she gives zero shits about Kylo, so okay. You know what. Fine. They kissed. They’re cousins but it really wasn’t a romantic kiss anyway.
What really is bothering me is Hux. I knew he was going to die. I assumed it would be something pathetic like that. Just a half second and that's it. Bye Hux. I didn't quite expect him to have so little screen time and be so insignificant. I know he was a minor character. He wasn't meant to have a large role. But where's that 34, scary general from TFA? He barely got to speak. And now seeing the visual dictionary, everything is so much worse. Allegiant general is apparently equivalent to grand marshal. Maybe Pryde deserved the rank more. We don't know much about what went on in the FO. But to see that Pryde was friends with Brendol? He must have known about Armitage's abuse, if not participated in it. And then for him to be in power over Hux? And to kill him? That fucking breaks my heart. Was this why Hux was so quiet? It does almost seem like he was scared and I hate it.
Obviously, Hux's death is super easy to fix. Maybe Pryde stunned him for interrogation. Maybe Hux was wearing armor. He was certainly paranoid enough to do it. Maybe Hux managed to tamper with Pryde's blaster so it would only fire on a low power setting. Maybe the cockroach just fucking survived getting shot. There's a lot of options. But unless official canon brings him back (ha!) he's "dead." And this all just hurts..
So those are the two plot points that I have issue with. But the movie, and the trilogy, as a whole. I don't know.
I think part of the big reason for my disappointment is that I loved TFA. I was feeling pretty meh about Star Wars but I saw it and it made me fall in love with Star Wars all over again. I couldn't even pick a favorite character. I loved Rey, Finn, Poe, and Kylo. I loved seeing Han come back. It was just a fun movie that introduced fun characters. I couldn't wait for the next movie. And maybe TFA was just so good that I could only be disappointed with TLJ.
But TLJ did not feel like a Star Wars movie. At least, not part of a trilogy. Instead of a real plot, it was just relying on subversion. At the end of the movie, everyone is basically right where they were before. Rey hasn't really had Jedi training, Finn's plot accomplished literally nothing, and Poe? Dude made it to the rank of commander in the New Republic Navy. I don't think he got there by being a dumbass. But they needed him to be a hothead, so they made him a hothead.
When we get to TROS, there's a lot of story that has to happen to wrap things up since not a lot happened in TLJ. And I think that's where there were problems. There was a lot going on. Too much. Everything seemed so random and nonsensical. Just sorta... shoved in there to complete the story. And I do like the way Rey and Sheev's final showdown went, with all Jedi and all the Sith in each of them. I really did like that. But putting Palpatine in there really makes no sense.
So here's where I think the problem came from. Not having this entire thing planned out ahead of time (at least an outline, guys) and switching directors. I think I've read that JJ Abrams did have it planned out but when they changed directors, it all went out the window. Which was a fucking mistake. And you know, it could have worked. If someone at Lucasfilm had been said this is how the story needs to go and here's where you can add your personal touch. And I thought that was what they had. A group of people to make sure that Star Wars canon makes fucking sense. Does that not really exist? Did they just not give a fuck?
And just from seeing little snippets of interviews and what not, I really get the feeling this mess was not where they at all intended to go. I think it is entirely possible they planned a Kylo redemption arc. Just from how broken up he is over killing Han, I think at that point, Kylo could have been brought back. But then in TLJ, he just says nope fuck that. He goes more to the dark. That's the point that I really started to love villain Kylo. Supreme Leader Kylo Ren. At that point, I don't think it was a good idea to redeem him.
I also don't think Luke's story was planned like that. I don't think that was how it was meant to go. Just the way he's looking at Rey at the end of TFA, I really think there was something more there. Much more. Very possibly, I think Rey was intended to be Luke's daughter from the beginning. At the very least, I think Luke was happy that she was there. But obviously, we all expected something positive, so we can't have that.
That's the other thing that I don't believe was planned - Palpatine. I don't think Rey was meant to be a Palpatine at all. So why do it? They had no choice. Snoke was dead. If they wanted to redeem Kylo they needed some other Big Bad. And who more evil than Sheev? It makes sense to a point, but also... Anakin died to destroy the Sith and bring balance to the Force. So he did nothing at all? I know in Legends Palps was out there cloning himself left and right, so this isn't really new territory. But I had really hoped that Palpatine was more a spirit rather than actually there. Maybe a ghost trying to get back into a physical body? So they bring Palpatine back so Kylo can be saved, reveal that the First Order was his contingency plan.
Problem is, the First Order is next non-existent in this movie. We have our first two movies that are Resistance vs. First Order, then we get to the final battle and where is the First Order? With the exception of Pryde's ship, those are all old Imperial Star Destroyers. Instead of focusing on the conflict from the last two movies, we instead have some new (old) guy with a big fleet. And he's just had this fleet sitting there. So why the fuck did he not just launch his fleet a few years back? They could have easily destroyed the Hosnian system and a thousand other planets with that fleet. So why Starkiller?
Obviously, this shit wasn't planned and they didn't really think through what this would mean for the rest of the trilogy. Basically, none of it mattered. Rey had to get of Jakku. Finn had to defect. Other than that? We could have skipped the rest of TFA and TLJ and just started up at TROS and had it make the same amount of sense.
And Finn. I have some feelings on Finn. You know how in TFA when Snoke's talking to Kylo about there being an awakening in the Force? Rey hadn't discovered her power yet. She hadn't had an awakening. Not until Takodana. But you know who did have an awakening? Finn. I think that first scene was meant to be the Force taking him away from the First Order. Finn says as much to Jannah. I really think he was meant to be Force sensitive. I think all the promo for TFA showing him with the lightsaber was to get everyone thinking he was going to be a Jedi, and then surprise! It's Rey. And I really think the intention was to be surprise! It's both of them. I'm glad there were hints to Force sensitive Finn, but I really wish they showed him using the Force just once.
Going back to the reylo and redemption, that seemed really forced. Like that was the plan to have Kylo redeem himself, but they had to shove it in with just one movie. I just don't get why he changed so suddenly. If Leia called to him and he paused, got stabbed and saved, like sure, maybe he'd stop and think about his life choices. But for him to throw his lightsaber away and then go up against Sheev? Nah. He's really not that dumb. I think if he threw his lightsaber away, that could be him saying he's done with that life. But he wouldn't go charging into battle. Han was a nice touch, but again, it was too big of a change.
Going back to the reylo and redemption, that seemed really forced. Like that was the plan to have Kylo redeem himself, but they had to shove it in with just one movie. I just don't get why he changed so suddenly. If Leia called to him and he paused, got stabbed and saved, like sure, maybe he'd stop and think about his life choices. But for him to throw his lightsaber away and then go up against Sheev? Nah. He's really not that dumb. I think if he threw his lightsaber away, that could be him saying he's done with that life. But he wouldn't go charging into battle. Han was a nice touch, but again, it was too big of a change.
I know they couldn't please everyone and anyone that had any expectations was bound to come away disappointed. Even me, who had super low expectations was disappointed. I guess it's fair that they made everyone unhappy?
I have a lot of ideas about what might have been a better plotline for this trilogy which I'll post in a reply since this bitch is getting long.
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Date: 2019-12-20 07:27 pm (UTC)So TLJ. I think what worked in TFA was the similarities to ANH. TLJ really should have continued that and borrowed a little more from ESB. So the Resistance is trying to find a base, Rey is doing Jedi stuff, Kylo is trying to locate Rey at all costs (this is where the Knights of Ren would come in) and Snoke would remain the big bad. The hard part is that you really need a time skip. But the way TFA ended, you really want to see what happened with Rey and Luke. I suppose it could be a flashback of Luke talking to Leia. But either way, I think a time skip was necessary. It's literally two days later and Kylo and Finn are both healed from life threatening injuries? Rey's made it to the middle of nowhere? The First Order really managed to gather their fleet and get to the Resistance that quickly?
Anyway, I think it would involve Luke being back with the Resistance while they're searching for a base. But the First Order keeps following them. Luke and Rey realize that it's because of them. The Knights of Ren are tracking them. And maybe Finn if we want to reveal he's Force sensitive here. Luke and Rey have to leave so the Resistance can be safe, there's some Jedi training. Maybe Luke knows where there's some knowledge that will help them hide themselves in the Force. They battle the Knights once or twice and right as they get to their goal, they have to fight Kylo. It's revealed here that Rey is related somehow, which would surprise Kylo. He might let them go or maybe just Rey if it's really necessary to kill Luke. Although it should be some big heroic sacrifice to save Rey. Or maybe the entire Resistance. Whatever. Point is Rey learns how to hide from the Rens and gets back to the Resistance.
Of course, you don't want to sideline Finn and Poe. So maybe Rose has plans to build better shields or weapons to help in the fight. But they need some kind of important supplies that they can only get on one planet. They all go together and have an adventure and fight the First Order. Maybe Finn convinces more stormtroopers to defect just so Hux can be pissed off about it. There needs to be some big battle here as well. Maybe they get what they need and Rose is working on it when the First Order appears and she has to scramble to get the weapons working. Poe goes to buy time. We can still have the dead sister in here too. And we can actually keep the Kylo getting distracted and letting the Resistance escape. So Rose thinks the weapon is ready, but it doesn't work. The Resistance thinks they're screwed. But the First Order jumps to hyperspace. Why? Because Kylo ordered them to because he wants more firepower to take out Luke. Hux is pissed and we see some co-commander rivalry. And actually, that's probably when the relationship reveal happens. So Kylo ends up not using the firepower.
If Kylo's going to have a redemption arc, then he can't be responsible for Luke's death. So after the reveal, Hux or someone else orders cannons to fire. Kylo is upset but can't stop it. Or maybe he can, depending on whether or not Luke dies here. Either way, I think Hux sees this and knows something is up with Kylo and suspects his betrayal. Maybe he even reports this to Snoke but Snoke just brushes it off because he knows Kylo's mind and Kylo is his loyal apprentice.
So basically, the Resistance just get away from the First Order, but Rey (and Luke?) can now hide from the Rens (however many survived) and the Resistance is ready to build up to finally take on the First Order. And Rose is able to build the shields and weapons too so they'll be more prepared.
So in the last movie, we finally need Kylo to turn against Snoke and the Order. But something has to trigger this. And what better than Anakin's Force ghost? There are other things we can use to push him back to the light. Maybe Leia. Sadly, Carrie's passing would have made this route impossible. Snoke still wants Rey like the Emperor wanted Luke, although Snoke is unaware of their relationship. We also need a new background for Snoke, so I'm going to go with ancient dark side bad dude. He's older than Palpatine and just sorta lurking in the shadows. When Palpatine died, he started his rise to power. He may have lured the Imperial remnant out to the unknown regions and started manipulating them until he was in charge. And while slowly turning Ben Solo. He also wants Kylo for some not good reason. Maybe he can steal his Force power and make himself stronger. But whatever he wants Kylo for, it's not good. I think Anakin may warn him of this.
The scene with Han from TROS could even be replayed with Anakin's ghost. There's obviously a shit load of details here. But I think at the start of the movie, Kylo is already feeling eh towards Snoke. He knows he can't kill him alone and the Knights of Ren aren't enough. Maybe he sends the Knights to capture Poe or Finn so Rey will come to rescue them. And then when she does, he asks for her help. She doesn't believe him. Meanwhile, the First Order know about Rose's new weapons and want to strike the Resistance before she can build more. So they're mobilizing and getting ready for a big ass battle. The Resistance learns of this and are getting ready to fight but they know they're not prepared. It really would help if Kylo Ren was on their side...
Fine. Rey decides to take the chance. But Finn doesn't let her go alone. Kylo agrees to take him but he can't confront Snoke. Instead, his plan is to sabotage the ship. Take of the First Order's biggest ship and they got a chance. They're on Snoke's ship just as the big battle starts. Also, the Knights of Ren are loyal to Kylo and Finn runs across them during his mission and thinks he's fucked. But Kylo ordered his Knights to help. They manage to get the ship set to explode but Finn needs Rey so he goes to find her. If his Force sensitivity hasn't been revealed, he can do it here to save Rey from Snoke. Which might distract Snoke so Rey and/or Kylo can kill him. Kylo and Rey are both hurt badly. Finn can only take Rey with him. Kylo tells them to go and that he'll be fine. Finn doesn't think twice and gets the fuck out of their with Rey. They blow up the ship and Finn says he actually hopes Kylo got out alive. And Rey says he did. That she can feel him in the Force. The remaining First Order ships are destroyed.
The First Order is defeated, Rey's a Jedi, and everyone is happy. Except Kylo. I think the last scene would be him somewhere all alone, kinda like Luke. Although maybe the Knights are with him. Maybe Hux.
There's obviously a lot more that would have to go in there. Poe obviously needs something to do. Gotta get Lando and Wedge in here too. But as for a basic plan, I would have preferred something more like this.
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Date: 2019-12-21 07:07 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-12-22 05:48 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-12-22 06:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2019-12-22 12:15 am (UTC)And yes, Hux deserved a better death. It should have been him at the end, as the command ship blew up. And we should have had a scene of Finn really using the Force and not just having feelings. I'm also salty about them retconning Poe's background. He was a drug runner who left his gang to join the Resistance? No. Just ... no.
I think this is going to end up being one of my least favorite movies in the franchise.
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Date: 2019-12-22 04:37 am (UTC)I'm torn on whether I liked this more or less than TLJ. It at least felt like Star Wars, but those things that were wrong are hard to look past.